• Reply by frick on February 07, 2012 at 4:59 pm
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What questions do you have? In what country are you? Do you have different kinds of flour, especially bread flour, available? What kind of yeast do you have, and what kinds of bread do you want to make? Have you ever made bread before? Do you understand recipes written in English?

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• Reply by ChrisfromCT on February 07, 2012 at 5:52 pm
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Hi Sheila,

I use a bread maker on the dough cycle. At the completion of the dough cycle, I take the dough out, place it in a prepared pan, let it go for the 2cnd rise and bake in the regular oven.

Start with a simple recipe. If you'd like a suggestion on what worked well for me - let me know & I'll post it here:)

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• Reply by sheila75 on February 07, 2012 at 10:46 pm
• 

I started with a simple white bread recipe.This is only my second attempt at succeeding. Why aren't my loaves very tall ? Very frustrated. I use my kitchen aid mixer to mix the dough. my husband says to get advise for making the perfect loaf of bread. Maybe you can help me then.

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• Reply by Mike Nolan on February 08, 2012 at 1:37 am
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Without knowing the EXACT recipe you used and some other details, it's harder to offer specific suggestions.

There are a number of potential problems.

How did you measure your flour?

How did the dough feel after kneading?

Does the dough double during the first rise? How long did that take?

When you put it in the bread pan, how full is it?

What's the temperature in your kitchen?

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• Reply by placebo on February 08, 2012 at 3:36 pm
• 

The only advice I can give is keep on trying. I would guess most of us here experienced early disappointments when learning how to bake. It takes a while to develop the skills needed, and you'll only get them through practice and experience.

First thing you should focus on is learning how to measure the amount of flour properly. If you use too much flour, the dough will be too stiff. If you don't use enough flour, the dough will be too slack. You want to start off close to where you should be, so you need to start with the right amount of flour. Ideally, if you can weigh the flour, that's the easiest and most consistent way to get it right.

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• Reply by easyquilts on February 08, 2012 at 4:58 pm
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One thing that helps me, when I use my KA, is to always do a little hand kneading before shaping. This will teach your hands how the dough should feel when it is ready to be panned

Hand kneading.....even a little bit.... Will help you get that perfect balance of flour and hydration.... You will begin to understand the difference between sticky and tacky.... You want tacky.

Baking good bread is all about learning to make little adjustments... Remember, even though you may be baking the same bread you baked yesterday, today's conditions are different... The moisture in the air is different, as is the Kent temperature in your kitchen.... You may even be a little different.

You will find that bread.....for all of our fussing....tends to be a little mysterious. It has a life of it's own.... You can never be quite sure how it will turn out..... That's the magic.

Sandy from Cincinnati

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• Reply by sheila75 on February 08, 2012 at 10:12 pm
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My recipe says to use 5 to 6 cups of flour. And in the instruction
part of the recipe it says to stat with 4 1/2 cups flour and then additionally add the other 1 1/2 cups a flour. would this most definitely mean you do NOT need to use the whole 6 cups. I noticed towards the end of mixing the dough in with my kitchen Aid mixer it looked really dry towards the end,there was what looked like tiny dry clumps that did not get mixed in. does this mean too dry ? What to look for when I am mixing the dough with the dough hook ? How do I measure the flour ?

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• Reply by placebo on February 08, 2012 at 11:04 pm
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Probably. That does sound too dry, and a dry dough could definitely have trouble rising and result in a brick. Generally, you want to err on the side of a dough that's too wet than too dry.

Here are instructions on how to measure flour by volume: http://www.kingarthurflour.com/recipe/measuring-flour.html

Depending on the ambient conditions, the amount of flour needed can change, so one way to avoid putting in too much flour is to hold back a cup or so when first mixing the dough, and then adding the remaining flour slowly until the dough looks and feels right. You should definitely go by the feel of the dough rather than strictly following the amounts as given in the recipe.

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• Reply by easyquilts on February 08, 2012 at 11:10 pm
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The amount of flour in any given recipe is really more of an estimate...a suggestion, if you will. Depending on conditions.....humidity, temperature, etc.......you may use more or less than is called for.

What you want to do, is use as little flour as possible....too much flour will give you a dry dough. Aim for a dough that is a little tacky, but not sticky.....you should be able to handle the dough without having it stick to your fingers. It will be smooth and pliable. This is why I strongly recommend that you hand knead at the end. It's the only way your hands will learn to "know" when your dough is just right.

The flour should all come away from the sides of your mixer, and form a ball on the hook.

Take the dough off of the hook, place in a lightly oiled or floured surface, and knead for a few minutes. Add more flour if your dough is too sticky, or a smidgen of water if it feels too dry. You are looking for that perfect balance..... You will know it when you feel it.. Trust your hands...

Sandy from Cincinnati

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• Reply by DanBakesBread on February 12, 2012 at 3:39 pm
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My bread seems to rise ok when in the bowl, but I expected it to rise more when in the oven. I put it in the pans and they are about half full. After letting the bread rise until the top is a little above the top of the pan, I put them in the oven. The bread doesn't rise more when baking. I expected it to. Could this be because the dough is too dry?

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• Reply by Mike Nolan on February 12, 2012 at 3:52 pm
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It depends on the recipe, but if your bread pan is only about half full, your recipe may not be matched to the right size pan. (I usually aim for a bread pan that is about 2/3 full before the final rise.)

That give you two choices, get a smaller pan or scale the recipe up a bit.

I have to do this with one of our favorite recipes, the Austrian Malt bread recipe I have posted. It was designed for a 3 cup bread machine, but I need a dough made with 4 cups of flour to fit in a standard bread pan.

Fortunately, all of the ingredients scale up by a third easily in that recipe.

If you're not getting any oven spring, you could also be over-proofing your dough a bit.

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• Reply by kirkj on February 18, 2012 at 6:59 pm
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Does over proofing mean the yeast has run out of gas?

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• Reply by mrscindy on February 18, 2012 at 8:26 pm
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Not necessarily. It depends on what kind of yeast you are using. What are you using?

Sometimes you can punch the dough down and reshape the loaf and it will rise (proof) again. There are several threads on the different yeasts, how they work, what to use for which bread type and what doesn't work for multiple rises.

Let me see if I can pull up some of those threads for you. Swirth would have them at her fingertips, but she is a little busy right now. I'll see what I can do.

~Cindy

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• Reply by kirkj on February 18, 2012 at 9:01 pm
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This only happened to me once after an hour and a half proofing on the first rise in the oven with light on, the second rise was kind of flat in the middle. I believe the yeast was "red star active"

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• Reply by mrscindy on February 18, 2012 at 9:57 pm
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Read through this thread. It might shed some light on what happened.

http://community.kingarthurflour.com/content/yeast-19

How did you proof your yeast? Did you knead by hand or KA? By 'flat in the middle' are you talking about the proof in the loaf pan? Or a free-form loaf? And how long was the second proof? Was the yeast one of a three pak? Or a jar?

Lots of questions, but we can help more if we have more information.

~Cindy

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• Reply by kirkj on February 18, 2012 at 10:26 pm
• 

I proofed the yeast in lukewarm water 90 to 100 degrees F

Knead was by KA

Flat in the middle was in the loaf pan during the second rise

second rise was 1 hour

The Yeast I believe was from my 2 pound red star active dry pack from Costco but might have been the little Fleischmans 3 packs that I bought when I first started baking 2 months ago

I was following the white sandwich bread recipe

Thanks Kirk

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• Reply by mrscindy on February 18, 2012 at 10:59 pm
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Okay, Kirk, here are some guesses.

The yeast was from the three pak, not what you got at Costco. The three-paks are notorious for being mishandled in the stores and being expired. You are much better off buying in bulk, like at Costco.

Your second rise, in the pan was too long. It over proofed and just wasn't able to hold the rise when it went into the oven.Your second rise should not be fully where you want the finished loaf. You have to allow for oven spring. The top of the loaf should just be about 1" over the edge of the pan when you slash it and into the preheated oven. Remember, if you poke your finger into the dough and it immediately begins to fill in the hole, you are ready to slash and bake. If it doesn't fill in, you are over proofed!

If you only started baking bread two months ago, you are doing great! Believe me, we have all fed the birds and ducks in the beginning. If you are able to eat what you are baking, you are ahead of many!

Like I said, these are guesses, but you are doing an incredible job. Don't give up. Make friends with the local avian wildlife and keep trying. We are here to help and hold your hand until you are making the best bread ever!

~Cindy

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• Reply by GinaG on February 18, 2012 at 11:07 pm
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Kirk,

When checking your proof, be careful to make sure that hole slowly fills back in. If it fills in rapidly, it needs a bit longer or you could run the risk of under-proofing.

It sounds like you're off to a great start!

Gina

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