Baking Bread I'M GIVING UP!
I have made about 24 loaves.....for the last 6 or 8 (making 2 at a time...DOUBLED RECIPE)... I am getting LARGE air holes in them. I lessened the yeast to 2 1/2 tsp...didn't get the rise...probably didn't wait long enough! last night I used 3 1/2 tsp...got a good rise...got a big air hole in each loaf....
THIS WAS NOT HAPPENING BEFORE! I made at least 4 to 6 loaves with no problem using 4 tsp. of instant yeast (saf red).
Using this recipe: CLASSIC SANDWICH BREAD from kaf site:
3 cups King Arthur Unbleached All-Purpose Flour*
1/2 cup milk (skim, 1%, 2% or whole, your choice)**
1/2 to 2/3 cup hot water, enough to make a soft, smooth dough**
4 tablespoons (1/2 stick) melted butter, margarine or vegetable oil
2 tablespoons sugar
1 1/4 teaspoons salt
1 packet active dry yeast dissolved in 1 tablespoon warm water OR 2 teaspoons instant yeast
I doubled everything and as I said...the first loaves I made came out fine!....now I have the big holes. I've read the info on the Baker's Yeast article on this site....it said to decrease the yeast....but ...
I don't know! I'm about to give up!...
When I started baking: The 3rd loaf I made (a single loaf) was the most beautiful loaf I've ever seen! (the first two single loaves I was using SELF RISING FLOUR! lololol you should have seen those bricks! didn't notice the srf...just saw unbleached)
Trying to save money...so I started baking my bread after seeing KAF on TV (history or discovery channel...?)
I don't want to stop! I love baking!
HELP!!!!!!!
Deb
Tags: big, Holes in my bread
- Login to post comments
Replies to This Discussion
- Reply by Mike Nolan on February 01, 2012 at 11:14 am
-
Most of the time, large holes in bread are a shaping issue.
What technique are you using? (There are several that work well.)
Are you fully deflating the loaves and then TIGHTLY shaping them? If not, you're creating air pockets in the dough, so it shouldn't be surprising that there are air pockets in the baked bread.
- Login to post comments
- Reply by mrscindy on February 01, 2012 at 11:16 am
-
I'll be interested to see how many others post this response before I can get mine up.
You don't have a yeast problem (maybe a little, you don't need to double your yeast) you probably have a shaping problem. Go this this site and study it. You are forming your loaves too loosely.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=ciril%20hitz&source=web&cd=3&ved=...
See if this doesn't help. Don't give up. We WILL help you. Just don't quit. What you are doing, baking your own bread, is a very good thing. We can get you through this!
~Cindy
EDIT: I knew it would be Mike!
~C
- Login to post comments
- Reply by Mike Nolan on February 01, 2012 at 11:39 am
-
Great minds think alike, Cindy!
- Login to post comments
- Reply by sandra Alicante on February 01, 2012 at 12:21 pm
-
I have to agree, it has to be a shaping problem, good news is, that after watching a few videos, you should be sorted! :)
sandrascookbook.com
- Login to post comments
- Reply by SHIRTLADYDOTBIZ on February 01, 2012 at 12:30 pm
-
Hey, Mike, Please read carefully! :}
I punch it (while it's in my 6qt bucket I got from kaf!) LOL
Then place it on my island with TEENY TINY amount of flour...I'm talking just a little. The dough already DOES NOT stick to my fingers or the rolling pin too much. (I live in Mississippi so humidity DOES play a factor in the moistness).
I take it out of the bucket...i knead it by hand a couple of times...it has happened even when I don't do that!...
then cut in half.... roll it out about 7" wide... 20" long
then roll it up... not sure if it's considered "tight"..:}.
Then place in pans... cover with saran wrap....rise about 50 minutes in my oven....learned a trick: heat oven for 1 minute at 325 degrees then turn off..... it's a warmish environment for it to rise in... my kitchen is cold. I've been doing this since DAY ONE so I don't think that's the problem...
I'm thinking you are right...the shaping process.
I don't know! :} Maybe I don't wait long enough after I punch it??? I will watch the videos. Thank you all for the help if I don't get to tell you personally...Deb
- Login to post comments
- Reply by SHIRTLADYDOTBIZ on February 01, 2012 at 12:35 pm
-
Thanks!
I am going to definitely watch this video!...going to sit in my chair now!
- Login to post comments
- Reply by Mike Nolan on February 01, 2012 at 1:50 pm
-
If the dough isn't at least a LITTLE sticky (Peter Reinhart calls it 'tacky'), then when you roll it up you may be creating air pockets, especially if it isn't a 'tight' roll.
I've seen one author suggest that after flattening the dough, or rolling it out, you LIGHTLY mist it just before rolling it up. (That applies to loaves, not to making individual rolls.)
This is more of an issue when making cinnamon rolls, because the filling, especially butter, tends to lead to gaps between layers.
Anyway, look at the videos, try that, then let us know, collectively we CAN help you get through this!
- Login to post comments
- Reply by easyquilts on February 01, 2012 at 4:01 pm
-
You're fast! I could actually answermthat one!
- Login to post comments
- Reply by easyquilts on February 01, 2012 at 4:04 pm
-
You know, I've done that a few times, and it worked..... Saw it on a video....
But, if you DO roll the dough into a log, it has to be tight.... Learned that the hard way.
Sandy
- Login to post comments
- Reply by mrscindy on February 01, 2012 at 5:10 pm
-
Mike, in response to your comment about lightly misting the dough; I had occasion, recently, to do just that. When I dumped the dough out to form it, it seemed ......not really dry, but not as tacky as I would have liked. I remembered you posting something in an earlier thread about misting, so......tried it and it worked like a charm. No air pockets or visible swirls. Thank for the tip. It's one of those things you tuck away for future use!
~Cindy
- Login to post comments
- Reply by BakerIrene on February 02, 2012 at 11:37 am
-
Your recipe has TOO MUCH SALT. When you double everything, the yeast and salt are totally out of whack.
My experience with baking all the bread for a household of 8 people is this: Good bread that keeps well in the freezer is best made with dough that takes 3-4 hours to rise the first time.
I use Active Dry yeast and I do NOT double the yeast for a larger batch of bread. I use 1 tablespoon yeast and 1 teaspoon salt for a recipe that starts with 1 quart milk. I use ONLY unbleached bread flour. This makes 6 loaves. I mix by hand and I keep the dough soft but not sticky, by adding the second half of the flour SLOWLY.
I just let this recipe rise until it's fully double. So I schedule my bread baking on a day when I have lots of other housework. The bread gets mixed first, and by the time the laundry and other tasks are done, the dough is ready to shape.
Then there is the point about "punching down"--you have to keep punching until the popping stops. After you punch in the bowl, roll each loaf portion of dough out with a rolling pin and there should be NO pops at all. It is not necessary to mist the dough.
The rise in the pan will take at most 45 minutes. DO NOT let it go longer, it will rise more in the oven.
- Login to post comments
- Reply by easyquilts on February 03, 2012 at 2:26 pm
-
Whatever you do DON'T GIVE UP! The rewards are too great.
Sandy
- Login to post comments
- Reply by NCRockhound on February 03, 2012 at 2:38 pm
-
If I can bake anyone can so don't give up. I am one of the least likely people to do baking of any kind.
- Login to post comments
- Reply by --jej on February 04, 2012 at 12:32 am
-
Please don't give up!!
Maybe you've had enough suggestions, but I'd like to add my experiences.
I have had wonderful results using the old "Moomie's (now Ellen's) Famous Burger Buns recipe for my bread. It goes through the dough cycle of the ABM, and just before removing it, I deflate it by pulling handfuls of the dough up high into the air above the bucket, then dropping them! I do that over and over until the dough crouches down into the bucket at about the same level as when it was left to rise in the first place.
Then after turning the dough out (usually onto a very lightly oiled surface), I 'hammer' it. I do that very 'closely', meaning I move with my fist from place to place trying not to miss a single area -- all with the purpose of finishing the deflating of the dough. I treat the dough this way because the original instructions said to 'slap those buns' around, good and hard. And if making buns, that is easy to do. Slapping the entire loaf was another thing, though; so 'hammering' it with my fists became my solution.
When satisfied that there are no appreciable air bubbles left, I knead the dough just enough to get it ready to shape into an appropriately-sized log, and into the bread pan it goes. (Of course, the bread pan has been well-lubed with the good old BC pan grease!! LOL)
When the loaf has risen to the top of the pan, on goes the oven. When it is an inch above the top edge of the pan, into the oven the bread goes. With this procedure, I don't know that I've ever had much in the way of air bubbles.
- Login to post comments
- Reply by mrscindy on February 04, 2012 at 12:49 pm
-
--jej, don't you just love Moomie's recipe? The video of her 'slapping' her buns still makes me smile after all these years. 😄
My, haven't we had some great memories with our baking antics! I just gave another one of Moomie's recipes to a member. Easyquilts wanted a great, old-fashioned chocolate pie recipe. I gave her Moomie's and, yes, it was exactly what she was looking for. Gosh, when I think of some of those 'lost' recipes, it is enough to make me cry.
~Cindy
- Login to post comments
- Reply by ZenSojourner on February 04, 2012 at 9:22 pm
-
OMG I WANT HIS OVEN! And especially his oven loading thingy!
*jealous jealous jealous*
- Login to post comments
- Reply by ZenSojourner on February 04, 2012 at 11:28 pm
-
I must admit, I was just experiencing similar disappointment, though I do believe you've got me in the area of a truly impressive wail of despair!
- Login to post comments
- Reply by mrscindy on February 07, 2012 at 5:13 pm
-
I heard from Moomie. She has re-married, is running a goat diary farm and has two little boys and grandchildren. That woman is seriously overworked!
She said the Baking Circle is not really a priority for her right now, well, duh! I told her I would see if swirth has the video since she didn't mention it. So, our only hope is swirth.
If you get a chance, go to the Dills a Little Goat Farm page swirth posted in this thread. Moomie has a beautiful little farm and she is a terrific lady!
~Cindy
EDIT: I just heard back from Ellen. She lost the bun slapping video a few years ago when her computer crashed. She was hoping KAF had it archived with her old recipes. We know the answer to that. So, if swirth doesn't have it hidden away somewhere, then the rest of you will just have to use your imagination! Sorry!
~C
- Login to post comments
- Reply by frick on February 07, 2012 at 5:14 pm
-
I don't think I saw the link to Moomie's site so here it is, just so you can see what Moomie is up to these days. No video, though.
http://www.dillsalittlegoatfarm.com/
- Login to post comments
- Reply by mrscindy on February 07, 2012 at 9:20 pm
-
I'm sorry, frick. The link was on the other thread that Zen started asking for Moomie's original recipe. I got confused. It happens a lot lately! 😄
Let me tell you, after looking at Ellen's page and the stuff she is doing......wow, that is one very busy lady. She has two grown, married sons, two step-sons and two new sons.
She did tell me she is on FaceBook and gave me the link so anyone from the Baking Circle can friend her and contact her there. She said you could also email her with questions about her recipes.
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?ref=name&id=1637661500
ellenfdorsey@gmail.com
Now it's all up to swirth and her prodigious memory as to whether or not we see the video.
~Cindy
- Login to post comments
- Reply by mrscindy on February 08, 2012 at 10:10 am
-
I know and it breaks my heart. I just wish KAF would be willing to help us out here. I know and THEY know the archived threads could be gotten to. They need to allow us to appoint one person (swirth?) as someone allowed to access the archives and retrieve old threads, recipes, info and such. Everyone would be so much happier.
{sigh} =pounding head on wall=
~Cindy
- Login to post comments
- Reply by Mike Nolan on February 08, 2012 at 10:28 am
-
I doubt the video of Ellen slapping her buns was ever posted on the KAF server, just a link to it.
It probably wasn't ever posted to youtube, either.
Someone may have a copy of it laying fallow on their hard drive, but there doesn't appear to be any copies of it that Google can find. (But Google can't find everything.)
- Login to post comments
- Reply by mrscindy on February 08, 2012 at 10:51 am
-
You're probably right, Mike. I'm sure youtube wasn't as popular then, after all this was a good eight or more years ago, so it wasn't posted there. And I'm sure it was just a link to the video on Ellen's computer. Still, sad we've lost so much.
~Cindy
EDIT: okay, I just went to google and typed in 'Moomie slapping buns'! Wow! It popped up with PAGES of links to different sites with Moomie's Famous Burger Buns. I'll bet she didn't know how widespread her recipe was. Very, very impressive. I'm going to shoot her an email right now. She may be famous for her goats, but she is much more famous for her burger buns!
~C
- Login to post comments
- Reply by NCRockhound on February 08, 2012 at 12:29 pm
-
I would love to see that video. It's funny to think about it being on Youtube. I bet it would get a million hits before anyone figured out what it was about. LOL
- Login to post comments
- Reply by Kemling again on February 08, 2012 at 5:10 pm
-
Miss Cindy, Iwas on the old Baker's Circle with Moomie and you and Petra. I well remember Moomie's buns. I used it a lot for cinnamon rolls. Also remember pictures of her goats years ago.I'll sure look up "Moomie's buns on Google. I just started baking again after several years hiatus due to illness. Now I'm housebound and have plenty of time to bake. Good hearing from you again.
- Login to post comments
- Reply by mrscindy on February 08, 2012 at 5:42 pm
-
It's so good to hear from you, Kemling. We did have a bunch of fun back in the OBC days, didn't we!
This new group is coming together. It's been really hard on some of the old members because we aren't excited about the way it was done and the type of forum KAF decided to make it. But, we are a stubborn bunch of bakers and some of us refuse to give in or quit. Thank the dear Lord for swirth. I'm not sure what would have happened without her and a few others she refused to let go of.
Hopefully your health issues are cleared up enough so you can enjoy baking with us, again. There is nothing better than the smell of freshly baking bread filling the house.
Again, I'm glad you're back with us and let us know if there is anything we can do for you. Housebound is not so bad when it involves baking. Ask me, I know all about it!
~Cindy
- Login to post comments
- Reply by sd653 on February 12, 2012 at 8:40 pm
-
I agree with everyone else that its probably the way she rolls it up. However I would really appreciate your Moomie's Bread recipe. The one you make out of the Famous Burger Buns.
I'm a new bread baker & am trying to find the perfect loaf. Very light & crunchy almost like croissant crust.
The one I love from Fredericksburg, Tx. which is Cracked Wheat Bread, is a very light wheat and is airy like,& taste wonderful. Last Christmas I bought 10 loaves & I'm on my last slice today. :( I'm the only one that eats it. I guard it! Will be going back Easter I hope for more. There closed till April 1st. When they start peach season again. Anyway any help would be appreciated. Thanks again.
- Login to post comments
- Reply by mrscindy on February 12, 2012 at 9:29 pm
-
Sd653, I think you can come very close to duplicating the Fredericksburg bread with Moomie's recipe. Use her basic recipe, substituting 1/2 of the AP flour with White Whole Wheat flour. You should be able to purchase the WWW at any Kroger or H-E-B store in Texas. You will need to add a small additional amount of water, as WWW or any WW flour will need additional liquid. This should end up being a very slack dough. If you have a problem or questions, please post back here. We can and will walk you through every step of perfecting your favorite bread!
~Cindy
- Login to post comments
- Reply by ZenSojourner on February 12, 2012 at 11:36 pm
-
The original recipe is here:
http://www.dillsalittlegoatfarm.com/recipes.htm
It came out very well, but not oniony enough for me (I did the onion bread variation, adding 1 T dried onion flakes and 1/2 tsp onion powder). Maybe just a little dry, compared to grocery store buns. My son wants them moister so next time I'll add 1/4c potato flakes per Mrs. Cindy's suggestion.
I soaked the onion flakes before adding to the mix in 2 T of the water - I don't know if tying some of the water up in the onion flakes that way may have caused the slight dryness. They did soak up ALL that water, so there would have been less left for the flour.
- Login to post comments
- Reply by SHIRTLADYDOTBIZ on April 16, 2012 at 2:35 pm
-
UPDATE!! Heyyy! I have enjoyed the conversations on my post! You guys are great! Thank you also for the tips...UPDATE!!!!! What worked for me to stop the giant air holes: I didn't have a water spritzer..so when I rolled out my dough on a lightly floured surface, I took my hand and wet it in from the tap water then rubbed it on the rolled out dough then rolled up the dough into a loaf...placed in pan...second one the same and baked...NO GIANT AIR BUBBLES!! YAY!! Haven't had any more trouble with that. I don't like shaping with oil...I like the flour.
I have not bought a loaf of bread from the store since December of 2011...I wanted to give up but thanks you all of you, I WILL NEVER BUY ANOTHER LOAF OF BREAD FROM A STORE!!!!
Now I want to make my own soft tortillas! We have a taco night and so I'm gonna try them and make a family affair out of it.
Thank you!!!!
Deb
PS: At first I was mixing all the dry indredients together...then started dissolving the salt and sugar in the water and/or milk together...dough started to not rise well (a lady on the internet does it that way)lol...when I switched back to keeping the dry ingredients together, dough rises awesome!
- Login to post comments
- Reply by mrscindy on April 16, 2012 at 3:58 pm
-
I'm so glad you didn't give up and we were able to help you solve your problem. And it was a simple fix.This is, without doubt, the most awesome forum. You will meet some people here with an incredible amount of knowledge and they are willing to share that knowledge! And we are willing to keep working at it until we solve the problem.
Good job, shirtladydotbiz, now you're baking!!!
~Cindy
p.s. Have fun on your tortilla night!
~C
- Login to post comments
- Reply by ZenSojourner on April 16, 2012 at 4:25 pm
-
Well if you were putting the yeast in there WITH the salt, salt inhibits yeast growth - it does it a LITTLE bit when spread through the dough, but when concentrated in the water it would probably outright kill off a significant amount of the yeast.
Too much sugar does the same thing - to ADY and instant yeasts, that is. There is a special kind of yeast for sweet breads, if you make a lot of them. SAF makes it. A LITTLE sugar helps the yeast to bloom, too much and it grows too fast then dies too soon.
- Login to post comments
- Reply by SHIRTLADYDOTBIZ on April 16, 2012 at 5:19 pm
-
no no I always left the yeast seperate when dissolving the salt and sugar...put the yeast in warm water even though I didn't have to (instant yeast)...I had read that about the salt..:}
But now I'm going back to just putting all the dry together...I add the yeast right at the last second.
Thanks!
- Login to post comments
- Reply by SHIRTLADYDOTBIZ on April 17, 2012 at 11:19 pm
-
Frick, it is awesome! Who knew that bakers were so AWESOME! and helpful? I appreciate all the help and comments and I KNOW I will be back with more questions IF I can't find the answers on the forums.
Deb
- Login to post comments
- Reply by SHIRTLADYDOTBIZ on April 17, 2012 at 11:21 pm
-
Thank you, Cindy! I am baking...going to venture into the tortillas and some pizzas! And other types of breads...need a
good biscuit recipe!
Deb
- Login to post comments
- Reply by SHIRTLADYDOTBIZ on April 17, 2012 at 11:23 pm
-
Thanks, jej and mumpy,
I am really enjoying baking and I am so glad I found kaf and have met all of you!
I'll be back! LOL
Deb
- Login to post comments
- Login to post comments
