Bread machine recipe failure


Have had great success baking michell's harves grains loaf (KA recipe) until this week. Had to throw away 3 loaves this week that did not rise. Bought new luck.
Using KA white whole wheat flour, vital wheat gluten and KA bread improver. I store the whole wheat flour in the freezer and bring up to room temp before baking. Could that be the problem? Does vital wheat gluten go bad. I store in pantry in original packaging from KA. Does it go bad. Have had it since April.
Any suggestions will be appreciated. Now baking oatmeal bread with KA bread flour and all seems fine with machine. Something is not right with whole grain and other ingredients.

badge posted by: km526 on August 03, 2012 at 12:08 pm in Q & A
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reply by: atrage on August 03, 2012 at 1:24 pm

Sorry for the difficulty. The vital wheat gluten should be fine since April and should be stored cool and dry. As long as you haven't made any ingredient or other changes to the recipe, I see no reason why it should suddenly be giving you such trouble. What kind of yeast are you using? Is your dough dry? Have there been any changes in climate or altitude?

reply by: KIDPIZZA on August 03, 2012 at 3:40 pm

Good afternoon. Sorry to learn of your baking disappoinments this past week. I cannot say for sure the WHY of all this. But & however, I can only go on what you have described. "DID NOT RISE"
Now then whenever that event occurs we must assume the gluten was not developed. If so... why not??? This is where we must address ourselves at.

Now for my thoughts,I do not think that for the little amount of VWG you used even if it went rancid would interfere with the gluten develoment. I would keep it in the freezer if I would be you. The same place I keep mine. Are you certain you measured correctly for the hydration??? WWW flour does require approx 65/69% hydration.
The only other thing I can think of is that the WWW flour went rancid & the 2, GLUTEN forming properties GLUTENIN & GLIADIN in the flour failed to form & develop the gluten.
Remember, the gluten is not in the flour the gluten is in the 2 aforementioned properties ONLY when hydration hits it & then it is agittated properly & sufficently.


NOTE: I have decided to edit this posting. Whereas what I have posted is applicable to your baking problem, there is another & better avenue to explore to solve your problem. I didn't think of it at the time about 1, hour ago because of my advanced age I suffer from memory problems. I forget very easily.

So I apolize for that. Please post the following to me the weight of the flour(s) & the amount of yeast, type as well as amount of sugar & salt. These ingredients are crucial to the mix in gluten development. Till then have a nice day.


reply by: km526 on August 05, 2012 at 5:00 pm

1 1/3 cups (10 1/2 ounces) warm water
2 tablespoons (1 ounce) brown sugar or honey
2 tablespoons (7/8 ounce) vegetable oil
1 teaspoon salt
1/2 cup Harvest Grains Blend
2 cups (8 1/2 ounces) King Arthur Unbleached All-Purpose Flour
1 cup (4 ounces) King Arthur whole wheat flour, Traditional or White Whole Wheat
2 teaspoons instant yeast

This is the recipe I am using.. The only addition is ka bread improver.

reply by: km526 on August 05, 2012 at 5:03 pm

Using saf red instant yeast. Store in the freezer. Climate in Florida..pretty AC keeps house temp at 78

reply by: KIDPIZZA on August 06, 2012 at 12:01 pm

Good moring.I scrutinized the recipe. It is in balance. I cannot find anything specific that would make your bake the failure that you have described.

I still feel it is a gluten development failure. If you try this recipe again I would speculate that you should employ COLD WATER like 65 degrees like I do. As you know machines while mixing generate much heat & heat disables yeast & also invite bad bacteria once the dough batter reaches 90 degrees. Ideal temp after kneading is completed is 78/82, degrees.

I might add that if employing traditional ww flour that when blended in with white flour it has a tendency "to cut & damage the gluten strands while being mixed" This is do to the Bran & Germ in the ww flour properties. I would bath the ww flour with very hot water to cover it's top surface for at least 4, hours. The amount of water employed is part & parcel of the total hydration so measure the hot water carefully.

I am sorry that I could not be of more help to you but & however I will still continue to do research on this problem. If I come up with something I will post it to you. Thank you for your patience with me.

Good luck in your baking & enjoy the rest of the day my friend.