kool-aid in sourdough bread
Can one use unsweetened Kool -aid as substitute for citric acid in sourdough bread?
Tags: Kool aid, sourdough bread
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- Reply by GinaG on January 12, 2012 at 12:36 pm
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Dear navlys,
Wow, who hasn't scrapped for a smidge of a called-for ingredient?
Unsweetened Kool aid? I don't think The Sourdough Police Squad are on that one, so the choice is yours, but...
I just looked online at the ingredients list for you. I don't know how much your recipe calls for, but I'd be chicken enough to split the dough in half to experiment with and without. The drink mix does have citric acid and vitamin C (same things) which is probably why it's sooo sour, but it also has salt in it and there's no telling how much.
I'd think you'd want to adjust the salt by cutting it back from the recipe in that case because yeast--wild and commercial, both--don't like salt: You could deplete the dough's rising and lift power.
There's usually so little in the way of citric acid called for in a recipe, I wouldn't bother. If you do go this route however, I would love to hear back...I'd be curious to know if the dough is tinged with color *hah!*
Tell us what you did.
Good luck,
Gina
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- Reply by frick on January 12, 2012 at 2:01 pm
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May I point out that real sourdough bread doesn't have additives like citric acid. The sour taste is a natural byproduct of an aged starter.
While in Austin I had to buy bread and I picked up a sourdough baguette without reading the label. There was no sourdough or natural starter in it; it was artificially soured with citric acid, lactic acid and another I can't remember. It was nasty and we threw it out.
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- Reply by Mike Nolan on January 12, 2012 at 2:08 pm
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Vitamin C is ascorbic acid, not citric acid.
I wouldn't worry about the salt in it, there can't be much. But the idea of 'black cherry kool-aid' sourdough bread is worrisome.
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- Reply by GinaG on January 12, 2012 at 2:33 pm
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Ascorbic acid and citric acid are used interchangeably and BOTH are Vitamin C.
Frick is absolutely right, but some people are choosing to add it to their sourdough to make it taste more sour if their starter is too mild for their taste.
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- Reply by Mike Nolan on January 12, 2012 at 3:10 pm
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http://blog.fooducate.com/2009/07/20/twelve-quick-facts-about-citric-aci...
It appears citric acid has a pH of around 3 while ascorbic acid has a pH of around 4.
Buttermilk also adds a nice tangy flavor to breads, I use it fairly frequently because my wife can't eat sourdough.
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- Reply by Mike Nolan on January 12, 2012 at 3:50 pm
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Making the buttermilk starter is on my 'to do' list, but so are a lot of other things, like learning French (and then going to France to eat bread!) :-)
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- Reply by Mike Nolan on January 12, 2012 at 3:54 pm
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Getting back to the original poster's question, vinegar would be a reasonable substitute for citric acid (replacing some of the other liquid.)
I use it in several breads, like Paddy's (Clonmel) double crusty bread, which I'm making today, in fact.
But I wouldn't call bread with citric acid in it a sourdough bread.
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- Reply by GinaG on January 12, 2012 at 5:02 pm
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No, we don't, but KAF has "sourdough" recipes calling for it...AND sometimes commercial yeast.
Kidpizza and BakerIrene coached me through a past-trauma I endured with a KAF recipe called Ultimate Sourdough...I was seduced by the prospect of having same-day sourdough baguettes and the RAVE reviews. So, with the trusting heart of a child, despite the recipe countering everything I knew to be right and proper about making sourdough bread, I unquestioningly proceeded to follow that recipe to the letter. After all, KAF must know something I don't.
The recipe is no longer there, but there's something close to it--The aforementioned called for FOUR teaspoons of dry yeast and almost as much vital wheat gluten. The current recipe calls for 1 T of commercial yeast and still calls for the VWG...Needless to say, with my already highly active starter, I had a Mt. Vesuvius eruption pouring from the bowl on my first rise, among other odd things going on. I just wouldn't let it go; kept trying and making more messes, spent hours on the hotline and was finally cajoled to let go.
I have since learned that people just have different perspectives on sourdough, right or wrong, authentic or not and until we vote for sourdough snob-squads who search and destroy the innocents who don't know sourdough is not bread flavored with a crushed vitamin C pill or commercial yeast, well, we can gently enlighten and encourage them to join our team: It is a happy place.
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- Reply by navlys on January 12, 2012 at 6:56 pm
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The whole idea was to add more "sour" to my sourdough (ka starter) w/o having to buy $5.oo worth of citric acid. I used Kool-aid in the lemon cookies and it worked well so I thought why not in the sourdough bread? I will definitely try it and report back but it may be a while.
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- Reply by Mike Nolan on January 13, 2012 at 10:56 am
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I buy citric acid powder in 5 pound bags from bulkfoods.com and use it for both cooking and cleaning. For example, we throw some in the dishwasher.
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- Reply by CookinATX on January 13, 2012 at 11:52 am
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I'm in the happy place with Gina. My sourdough is pure flour, water, salt and wild starter (which is flour and water). Your sourdough starter will get more sour with age, especially if you add a pinch of rye flour now and then, and stir the hooch back in versus draining it off.
...but I am interested in hearing how the Kool-Aid bread turns out!
I read about using citric acid or unsweetened lemon Kool-Aid in the dishwasher. Seems either one effectively replaces "jet-dry"...but the Kool-Aid will stain your wash tub yellow.
I expect your Kool-Aid bread will come out dyed too! Sounds like a fun experiement.
Chris
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- Reply by GinaG on January 13, 2012 at 1:24 pm
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One of my favorite cleaning tricks is to use lemon juice and baking soda for tougher jobs: It's a miracle, truly--But I wonder if the same thing could be done with citric acid granules and baking soda with a bit of water, in a pinch. I think I may try that.
If you haven't tried using lemon juice or vinegar and baking soda, try it. It works great on pots and pans,even burnt-on grease among other things. It takes the elbow-grease factor out of the equation.
I'm dying to hear about the Kool-aid bread.
GinaG.
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- Reply by Mike Nolan on January 13, 2012 at 1:46 pm
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Citric acid, vinegar and lemon juice are pretty much interchangeable for cleaning. (The lemon juice smells better than the vinegar, otherwise they work about the same.)
Recently I've been using Dawn Power Scrub, it does an excellent job loosening baked on food, and is even doing a good job getting the stains off the stainless steel backsplash at the back of my range. (We'd tried EVERYTHING, this is the first product that had much effect on them! It still takes some elbow grease, but slowly I'm getting the stains off.)
The citric acid in the dishwasher doesn't do the same thing as Jet Dry, but it does do a good job of dissolving any calcium stains on dishes or on the dishwasher itself.
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- Reply by GinaG on January 13, 2012 at 1:57 pm
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Try this, Mike:
Make a paste with Oxy-power powder; Dawn and some Soft-Scrub, then stir it up and scrub with a brush or apply a layer, let it dry, then scrub: MAGIC.
When I first came to my father's house, the inside of his hood was an atrocity. When he saw me reaching inside to clean it, he yelled at me that he tried everything already,including TSP, not to bother, he planned to dismantle it and paint it (!)
I waited until he wasn't looking to see for myself "nothing will work" because I don't believe that! I can clean ANYTHING. Sure enough, I was right, but I waited until he took the hood down before I approached with my concoction.
"What are you doing?" He asked, looking over my shoulder, then, "Well, I'll be d*****! It's working! How the h*** did you DO that?!"
No paint on the inside of the hood afterall.
Try it. It's my adaptation of a cleaning expert's formula of laundry detergent and Dawn in equal parts. Mine is better!
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- Reply by CookinATX on January 13, 2012 at 2:47 pm
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My memory is bad then...I thought the citric acid was like jet dry...but the the calcium-remover makes sense, Mike. I haven't used it. I did stop buying jet dry a number of years ago though, and fill the dispenser with straight vinegar. No spots!
I'm also using home made laundry detergent and vinegar in place of fabric softener in the washer. ...and no, my clothes don't smell like a pickle! :) They smell, um, unscented.
Slowly, I've replaced expensive chemical commercial cleaners with gentler, traditional home made cleaners which are just as effective. Lots of vinegar, lemon, and baking soda for sure!
Chris
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- Reply by navlys on February 22, 2012 at 7:10 am
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I finally tried the Kool-Aid in the sourdough bread. I added 1/2 tsp of lemonade Kool-Aid to my Ka sourdough recipe. (5 cups of flour). First I noticed a pink streak in the dough! Then I smelled it and it smelled like lemonade. Then when it was baking, again all I smelled was the Kool-Aid. But when it was finally baked...voila!..it tasted good with no trace of lemonade flavor. Will I try it again? Probably.
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