semolina rolls


Hi I have a question I haven't seen answered specifically, only hinted at in other posts. I want to make the semolina rolls, the recipe on the bag, but since I am only one person I would like to hold the dough in the fridge and bake some as needed. Actually, I have more than one question - first, should I lower the amount of yeast to do that? I have seen that referenced in other posts and recipes. Two - How long will they hold? I am a newbie, well I used to make bread decades ago, lol, and am getting my nerve back. Any help you can give me regarding holding doughs when the recipe doesn't call for it would be greatly appreciated! I can put the recipe here if needed but basically it calls for 3/4 cup of AP, and 2 cups semolina flours, with 2 tsp. instant yeast. Thanks!

badge posted by: dragonmist on October 23, 2012 at 5:29 pm in Baking, yeast
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reply by: Mike Nolan on October 23, 2012 at 7:54 pm
Mike Nolan

A lean yeast dough (no sugar, oil, egg, etc) will usually keep in the fridge for close to a week, but after 3 or 4 days it may start to taste a bit more like a sourdough bread.

You could cut back on the yeast a bit, it probably won't make much difference because you'll want to let the dough you're using each time warm back up and degas it anyway.

You could try shaping and freezing the dough, if well sealed it should keep for a month or so, or you could bake the rolls and freeze them.

reply by: dragonmist on October 23, 2012 at 8:38 pm

Thank you! This dough has only 1 T olive oil for that amount of flour. Glad to hear not cutting back on yeast is ok. I didn't want to end up with bad rolls. I don't trust my freezer much, it is with the fridge and the auto defrost makes it unreliable IMHO.
I really appreciate your answer. I'm new here and am sure I will be enjoying this site.

reply by: Mike Nolan on October 23, 2012 at 8:50 pm
Mike Nolan

That little oil shouldn't make much difference. Things like egg or milk (both of which can spoil) are more likely to limit how long you can safely store dough in the refrigerator.

Without the overnight part, my guess is you could cut the amount of yeast in half and get nearly identical rolls, it just might take an extra 10-15 minutes for them to rise.

An overnight rise in the fridge (often called retarded fermentation), may actually produce tastier rolls, because the yeast will slow down due to the cold temperature but the enzyme activity will not slow down as much.

It's somewhat of a simplification, but in many cases when making bread you are trading taking more time for getting better flavor.

Anyway, welcome to the Baking Circle, we look forward to helping you and learning from you as well.

reply by: dragonmist on October 23, 2012 at 9:00 pm

Thank you for the welcome. I have read many many posts in the last few days! Hard to keep the facts straight lol. I'm sure I will be visiting daily. You guys are the best!

reply by: dragonmist on October 23, 2012 at 9:14 pm

Oops it does call for 2 T buttermilk powder. Will that shorten the holding time?

reply by: Mike Nolan on October 23, 2012 at 9:42 pm
Mike Nolan

I wouldn't think buttermilk powder would affect things.

Did you leave out any other ingredients? (That's why we often ask to see the recipe before answering.)

reply by: dragonmist on October 23, 2012 at 9:56 pm

I am sorry, thanks for your patience. I'll get the hang of it. It's 2 tsp. sugar, 2 tsp. yeast, 1 1/4 c water,, 2 c. semolina, 3/4 c. AP, 2 T. buttermilk powder,, 1 T. olive oil, 1 1/2 tsp. salt. The other ingredients listed are optional seasonings, which I intend to leave out. Supposed to make 12 rolls, but I want to use them for sandwiches as well, so will probably make them bigger.
Bless your heart, Mike

reply by: Mike Nolan on October 23, 2012 at 10:19 pm
Mike Nolan

When I make burger buns I make each one using about 2 1/2 ounces of dough. (If you like BIG burgers or sandwiches, use more dough to get a bigger bun.)

For sliders I use 1.25 ounces of dough per bun.

That recipe seems slightly out of balance (too moist), but maybe semolina is enough heavier than AP flour that it works out OK.

If I use the weights King Arthur assigns to various flours, 2 cups of semolina + 3/4 cups of AP is about 14 2/3 ounces. 1 1/4 cups of water is 10 ounces so that's a 68% hydration dough, which seems a tad high to me.

Moomies burger buns, for example, uses 1 cup of water with 3 1/4 cups of AP flour, which is about 58% hydration.

Of course if you measure flour the way most of us were taught, then you'll probably have at least 16 ounces of flour, at which point you're probably OK. :-)

reply by: dragonmist on October 23, 2012 at 10:34 pm

From what I understand (keep in mind that I'm new to this) semolina is basically whole grain duram. I have used it in my pizza dough and it does seem to wick up water like crazy. That recipe advises to let it stand 30 minutes before kneading so the flour can absorb, and it goes from wet to "regular" dough in that time. I haven't tried this recipe yet, but I'm crazy about the flour's flavor.
Also, the semolina doesn't fluff up much before scooping. I do my best with the AP by fluffing it in the bag but am getting ready to order a larger-mouthed container for it to make fluffing easier.
I need a scale for sure! After reading these posts it sure sounds like the best way. For now, tho, I try to err on the light side. I'm sure I have gotten too much flour before, and it was discouraging because until I came to your circle I didn't know why I didn't like my bread. Bet that was it.
The pizza dough I'm referring to is also from this site, Now or Later Pizza. It calls for equal amounts of each flour, so I use total 1 1/2 c. with 1/2 c. water. Is that similar hydration? I need the weight of the flour to figure it, right? Uh oh, without the scale that's math from the bag, right LOL that will take me awhile.
Thank you so much for taking this time. I know I keep saying thanks, but I keep meaning it!

reply by: Mike Nolan on October 23, 2012 at 10:50 pm
Mike Nolan

I just recently replaced my scale (which died) with a MyWeigh KD-8000. Great scale!

I use semolina mostly for pasta, but also in pizza crust (along with corn meal), and in some breads, but AP flour always makes up 2/3 or more of the total flour of the breads.

I may have to try your recipe. (See, I told you we all learn from each other!)

The McGinnis Sisters stores in the Pittsburgh area sell a semolina bread that is excellent. I've tried to duplicate it, I'm not getting very close. (Semolina is listed after flour on the list of ingredients, so I assume that means it makes up less than half of the total weight of the flour. I've used up to 33% by weight.)

To be honest, there's a lot of confusing information out there about what semolina is. About the only thing they agree on is that it made from durum wheat. A number of sites refer to it as 'middlings' which would mean it has much of the endosperm removed, increasing the percentage of germ and bran present, which would logically make it heavier than patent flour.

Maybe someone at KAF will see this thread and set us all straight!

reply by: dragonmist on October 23, 2012 at 10:56 pm

I got both recipes from KAF, only the rolls were on the flour bag. I don't know the weight of it. I got stuck figuring out tablespoons lol. But I think 3 c. weigh 1 lb. I get confused easy on math tho.
Would love to make my own pasta, do you have a machine? The only pasta I've made is noodles for my soup, it's ok if they're a little thick.

reply by: Mike Nolan on October 23, 2012 at 11:53 pm
Mike Nolan

I have the basic pasta roller/cutter kit for my KitchenAid mixer. I make noodles, spaghetti and lasagna. (I've experimented with other shapes, but what I did was to roll them out with the roller attachment then cut them by hand. I don't think I'd use extruder attachments, for things like macaroni, often enough to justify the cost.)

We bought a pasta machine some years ago, but it didn't work as well as we would have liked and the KA attachments are easier to use (and cheaper if you already have the KA.) It's currently in the garage sale box.

If you haven't seen it in other threads, here's King Arthur's master weight chart:

reply by: dragonmist on October 24, 2012 at 1:55 am

Thanks! I'm sure I will be using that chart. The hydration and weights are new things to me, exciting to learn. It really is an art and a science isn't it? I have the pasta machine on my wish list but first, a scale!

reply by: Mike Nolan on October 24, 2012 at 10:48 am
Mike Nolan

Yeah, if you don't get the science part right, the art part is pointless, and if you don't get the art part right, the science part is wasted. :-)

A hand cranked pasta machine is not too expensive, but you need to be careful with them at first. The one we had (supposedly a good brand) put metal filings in the dough. Then we bought an expensive pasta machine (it had a mixer and an extruder built in), it was very disappointing, hard to use, difficult to clean, and made so-so pasta.

I prefer the pasta attachments for my KitchenAid mixer, sometimes it seems like you need 3 hands even with a motorized pasta roller. (I have noticed on the cooking competitions that when they have to make pasta by hand they often do it in teams of 2.)

reply by: frick on October 24, 2012 at 2:21 pm

Nicely said, Mike, about the art and science of baking.