• Reply by easyquilts on February 12, 2012 at 4:53 pm
• 

I've been using Nancy's Whole Wheat recipe, from this site, and it's wonderful..... Very light and tastes great. It has some AP flour... I use KA's White Whole Wheat...... and KAAP.

This is a great bread.... But, maybe you are looking for a totally whole wheat bread... I've never used all whole wheat..... Good luck.

Sandy from Cincinnati

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• Reply by KAF_Frank on February 12, 2012 at 4:57 pm
• 

Sorry to hear of the difficulty. This may be related to the method you used to measure the flour.

Here is the method we use in all of our recipes:
http://www.kingarthurflour.com/recipe/measuring-flour.html

If you "dip" the flour directly from the bag, you'll have about 20% too much, and a very heavy, dense, loaf. Generally a 100% whole wheat loaf is not going to be a high riser. I would only expect about a 1" rise above the edge of the specific pan size called for in the recipe.

The loaf will be ready to bake when the loaf will hold a dimple, pressed in at the corner of the pan, about 1/2" deep. If the loaf pushes the dimple out, it needs more time. Frank @ KAF.

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• Reply by pmcd404 on February 12, 2012 at 5:12 pm
• 

I use metric weight for all the ingredients. I use the OJ to make it less bitter and about 240g's of liquid.
What will more liquid do?
Could I be letting it rise too long first proving? The dough rises great until I form it into loaves and put in the bread tins then nothing much happens. In fact, the last batch seemed OK in the bread tins but when i disturbed it it actually went down in volume.

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• Reply by Mike Nolan on February 12, 2012 at 5:18 pm
• 

If it collapsed when disturbed, it was over-proofed.

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• Reply by misysdsb on February 20, 2012 at 5:34 pm
• 

I'm having the same problem. Using the KAF recipe for Whole Wheat Bread (w/ KAF white wheat flour) I've followed the recipe to the letter. Everything looks good along the way. Dough rises to 2x within the hour. I gently deflate it, form in a log, place it in my 9x4 bread pan, rise a second time until the dough is 1.75 inches above the pan rim, bake at 350. Perfect?

Nope. Once in the oven the bread SHRINKS to about 90% of its original size. There is absolutely no oven spring.

Considering everything else is "by the book" I'm beginning to suspect my yeast. A special Fleishman's variety that was bred to be impervious to heat? What else could it be??

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• Reply by Mike Nolan on February 20, 2012 at 6:35 pm
• 

How full is the pan when you place your dough in it?

In order to get oven spring, you must place your dough in the oven BEFORE it has finished rising to the maximum that is possible.

Oven spring is a period of faster yeast growth due to being in a warmer environment (ie, your oven.) It ends when the yeast hits about 135 degrees and dies.

But if your dough has already risen as much as it can structurally support, then it can't support rising any further and may collapse, just as a balloon will burst if blown up past its capacity (though not as dramatically as a balloon.)

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• Reply by dachshundlady on February 20, 2012 at 7:28 pm
• 

Whenever I make bread of any type, I put it in the oven when the dough barely crests the pan.

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• Reply by misysdsb on February 20, 2012 at 10:07 pm
• 

So if I am careful about a 2x first rise, and a 2x second rise as the recipe indicates, then the implication is that the yeast is all spent before it is hitting my oven?

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• Reply by Mike Nolan on February 21, 2012 at 1:09 am
• 

It usually isn't the yeast, it will continue to feed until something stops it, like running out of sugars (converted from starches) to eat. That takes a LONG time if you have 3 or 4 cups of flour, a sourdough starter will continue to bubble for weeks on far less flour than that, and I've had pate fermentees that were still very active after 6 days, having doubled (or more) and been punched down every day.

The carbon dioxide and alcohol generated as by-products of yeast growth will slow the yeast down. (That's why fully deflating most doughs is a good idea.)

The problem is that the structure of most dough just won't support a 3X or 4X rise during baking. A stronger dough (eg, more gluten) might allow it to rise a bit higher, but you still need to put it in the oven BEFORE it reaches 100% of the height it can support.

Going 'by the book' just doesn't work unless you can control all the conditions precisely, like they do in a large-scale commercial bakery. You need to be a bit flexible about things like how much moisture to add and how long to let it rise, because each day is a bit different than the last one. Even authors like Peter Reinhart recognize that sometimes serendipity plays a part in getting the perfect loaf. That's why baking is both a science and an art.

Another thing worth mentioning (again) is that whole wheat bread will generally not rise as high as white bread, because the bran in the flour cuts the gluten strands, limiting their expansion.

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• Reply by sandra Alicante on February 21, 2012 at 2:55 am
• 

Perhaps, if you are having problems, you'd like to give this a go.

http://www.luculliandelights.com/2012/01/revolutionary-bread-cuban-bread...

sandrascookbook.com

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• Reply by pammyowl on February 21, 2012 at 2:34 am
• 

If you want light and airy you will want a recipe that has some white flour. If you want 100% whole wheat I have had excellent results with both KAF's recipe and George Greensteins recipe from his book Secrets of a Jewish Baker. I do get some oven spring with both recipes, so I let it rise until it no more than an inch above the rim of the pan.

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• Reply by skeptic7 on February 21, 2012 at 1:31 pm
• 

Try reading "Laurel Kitchen's Bread book" and "Peter Rheinhart's Whole Grain Cookbook", these books both feature 100% whole wheat flour.
I only let bread dough rise once before shaping and never let it get double. I mix the dough, let it sit for awhile, knead it very well, let it rise to about 1.5 X, and then shape it. I let it rise until a gentle touch doesn't bounce back and then bake it. This won't have any oven spring but it shouldn't collapse either. If the dough ferments too long the gluten can weaken and if it ever proofs too high the gluten strands will break and not recover.

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• Reply by BakerIrene on February 23, 2012 at 8:46 am
• 

Whole wheat bread can and should rise some in the oven.

Make sure you are using unbleached bread flour. Or use the White Whole Wheat. Keep the dough soft when you are kneading it.

The shaped dough should take up 2/3 to 3/4 of the depth of the pan. This is true for all shapes and pans, even cinnamon rolls.

You are letting your shaped bread rise so much that the yeast cannot rise more in the oven. The King Arthur test kitchen runs at 80F so if your kitchen is colder, you are letting the bread rise too long in the pan. YES I have written to them to tell them how much difference this makes to use home bakers.

Let the bread rise in the pan ONLY TO THE TOP OF THE PAN. NEVER RISE MORE THAN ONE HOUR IN THE PAN.

The oven will get the rest of the rising done just fine. You can even put it into the cold oven at the 3/4 hour mark and then turn on the heat.

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