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stripers badge: Community Member

The ZO

I've had my Zo for several years now and have learned that it needs to be TENDED during the bread-making process. I thought I had a defective machine, because the first time I used it, I put in the ingredients, selected the setting, and walked away, expecting the machine to just do its THING, and deliver a perfect loaf. When this didn't happen I called my friend, who's had one far longer than I, to find out what I'd done wrong. I found out that it's not a "plug-in", "walk away" kind of thing.
Like anything else, I suppose, it has its positive and negative aspects. On the down side, my loaves tend to sag in the middle, for instance, and, from time to time, depending on the temperature and humidity, I need to add additional water or flour before the first rise.
We like a nice thick and crispy crust to offset the tender crumb, so I program it for MEDIUM crust. This is a personal preference, of course. I also have a devil of a time getting the loaf out of the pan without tearing it to shreds due to the paddles. The paddles also leave TWO gaping holes in the bottom, which makes it difficult to slice in that part of the loaf. I also think that these holes cause the loaf to dry out more quickly. (Once we get to the holes, I put the loaf in the 'fridge, which makes it easier to slice thinly).
That said, I find that the texture of the crumb is 'par excellance'. I no longer have to spend a lot of time 1) making the bread, kneading it, rising it, etc., etc., OR 2) cleaning up after bread-making with flour dust and bits of dough all over the place. Plus, there aren't a lot of utensils to wash, dry and put away either. I even use the KAF mixes now too, which are time- and chore- saving, AND, most importantly, WE LOVE THE BREAD.
I've never had problems with additions, such as raisins*, seeds or nuts. They seem to blend in perfectly. In warmer weather, I also don't need to preheat and heat the oven either, so the kitchen stays ambient temperature, or cooler when the air-conditioning is on. I can just put the Zoji in the 'mud-room', which is just off the kitchen. I have a propane gas stove, too, so the Zoji saves energy as well.
So, all in all, this was a very good investmnt on my part. And yet, like anything else in life - marriage, kids, family, work, etc. - it isn't perfect, but the pluses far outweigh the minuses.

* Do you soak the raisins to plump them up before adding to the dough? This seems to help them incorporate more easily.

Tags: Bread machines, philosophy, successes, the Zoji, troubles

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sandra Alicante

You are not doing yourself any favours by putting the bread in the fridge - it will stale more quickly.

I used to use a chopstick to help remove the paddles easily.

sandrascookbook.com

stripers
  • Reply by stripers on January 15, 2012 at 1:30 pm
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Thanks for your quick response.
I do use the bread bags, and, for the limited time the bread is in there, I've found this not to be true. We slice from the ends to the holes;).
The chopstick! hmmm! Very clever! This means, of course, that the paddles remain in the bread, right? Mine tend to stay attached to the bucket when I remove the bread.

NCRockhound

I'm still torn on the prospect of buying a Zo. Some days it sounds like a good idea and some days it sounds like it would be a major pain. I do like to play with dough and tweak it a bit but sometimes I like baking in the machine or using the delay timer just for the convenience. Then there are the stories I've read about mechanical failures and leaky pans and the company's temperamental customer service. I decided a few days ago to check that out by sending the company an email. They did answer promptly but I'm not sure I like the answer I got. They basically said that even with a new machine if there is a problem I have to send the machine to them and if they decide the problem is not my fault they will replace it. If they decide it is my fault I have to pay for the replacement even though the machine is new. I don't like the idea that they can veto their own warranty and tell me I have to pay for something I just paid for a second time. That probably wouldn't happen but who knows what could happen if the person handling my claim is having a bad day? Too many ifs for a very expensive product.

At this point I think I will buy a Zo only if I can get a really good deal on a used one or if the previous owner promises they have used the machine and it works well. I don't think I'll be making the investment for a new one.

mrscindy
  • Reply by mrscindy on January 15, 2012 at 2:07 pm
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Have you tried removing the paddles before the final rise, re-forming the loaf, putting it back in the Zo and continuing on to bake? This way, no paddle holes, just tiny little post holes. That's what a lot of the people who bake in the Zo do.

~Cindy

stripers
  • Reply by stripers on January 15, 2012 at 2:21 pm
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NOPE!!! This never even dawned on me. BUT!!! it is certainly worth a try! Thank you, thank you!!

sandra Alicante

For anyone looking for a Zo, I would hold out for a good second hand deal. The chances are that once the novelty has worn off, a lot of xmas pressies will be up for sale in yard sales and on Ebay.

May as well pay less, than get a new expensive one that has such lousy warranty service.

sandrascookbook.com

HerBoudoir
  • Reply by HerBoudoir on January 16, 2012 at 10:33 am
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Even on eBay, the Zo's are pretty expensive...I wouldn't chance it for a used machine. If, however, you can find one at a garage sale or the like, that might be priced to take a chance. I have a Goodwill near me and I've been keeping an eye out there for another Zo as a back up for me and ANY kind of bread machine in good shape for a friend of mine who wants one (Goodwill is right next to the grocery store where I shop so it takes about 5 minutes to pop in)

I love mine, but I do use it as a dough maker, then do a shaping, final rise, and bake in the oven. The results are just more in tune with what I want out of fresh baked bread that away.

OTOH, my mom has had her Zo for somewhere in the 15 to 20 year range, and always bakes in it. Different strokes.

I have to go to the grocery store today so I'll get dough going before I leave, and by the time I've shopped and put away the groceries, it'll be ready for me to pull out and put in a pan to rise one more time then bake. Good stuff. (Just basic white today since I'm roasting a turkey tonight...perfect for sandwiches)

omaria
  • Reply by omaria on January 16, 2012 at 1:08 pm
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"And by the time I've shopped and put away the groceries , it'll be ready for me to pull out and put in a pan to rise..."

Yes , that is what I thought would be the case with me yesterday. My Zo is new ,just got it for Christmas. Baked 1 loaf in it so far. I put everything in the pan (PaddyL's buttermilk bread,) Had 2 loaves in bread pans to rise (done in KA mixer) and quantity for 2 loaves in Zo. Put it on the dough cycle (I thought) and went shopping. Came back to a loaf that was hitting the roof of the baker and it had started to bake!!! Panic...panic... ended up by putting the whole breadpan from the Zo in the oven. Baked an enormous high loaf. Let it bake till 202F inside temp. and brought it to my daughter. Have not heard if they ate it yet . LOL

NCRockhound

LOL. Sounds like an episode of "I Love Lucy" where Lucy opens the oven door and the bread just keeps coming out. I've had experiences like that that made me wonder when the loaf was going to end.

HerBoudoir
  • Reply by HerBoudoir on January 16, 2012 at 5:28 pm
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LOL Yep, need to make sure you're setting it to the cycle you actually want!

It also sounds like you might have had too large of a recipe in the machine if it rose that high - it seems to handle up to about 5 cups of flour without any trouble. More than that....well. Yeah LOL

My loaf is done and still cooling, although I did already steal the end slice to munch on :-) It was too tempting. Going to make some awesome hot turkey sandwiches for dinner later this week.

mwhitebigger

My hubby got me a ZO for Christmas and I finally got up the nerve to bake a plain loaf of white bread last weekend. It was wonderful! I did set it and forget it (basic setting with medium crust) and walked away, but it was very tender with a nice crust. Much different than my first bread machine.

I learned from a couple mistakes: 1) I should not scoop the flour. Weighing is probably best. 2) I was so excited about how easy it was to get the ingredients in I sprinkled the yeast instead of making a well in the flour. It rose nicely, but I'll remember next time.

This weekend is wheat bread! I love my ZO, but may gain a few pounds from all this bread. The KA emails are inspiring too. I find the recipes interesting without seeming too complicated.

HerBoudoir
  • Reply by HerBoudoir on January 18, 2012 at 10:11 pm
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The basic white Zo recipe is a family favorite...it makes great rolls too.

You really do not need to worry about doing the yeast in a flour well thing if you're not going to delay the start time on the bread, but you do want to keep it away from the salt.

If you don't weigh the flour, at least spoon it into the measuring cup rather than scooping out with the measuring cup. Unfortunately most recipes aren't done by weight, although that's absolutely the most accurate way to measure.

I hope you have as much fun as I've had with the Zo :-)

NCRockhound

I still don't have a scale. That's on the wish list for when I have extra money. Until then I keep my flours in big plastic canisters with tight fitting lids. When I'm about to use one I pick up the whole canister and give it a vigorous shake. It helps fluff up the flour before I spoon it into the measuring cup. And I use the edge of a butter knife to level the cup rather than the flat side so I don't accidentally pack the flour into the cup a little bit. My bread results are much much better since I starting doing that.

mrscindy
  • Reply by mrscindy on January 19, 2012 at 9:35 pm
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Isn't it amazing the little hints we pick up from the Baking Circle. Who would have thought, all those years ago when our mothers taught us to cook and measure ingredients, that we were doing it wrong! Yes, we measured everything, but weighing it? Never! My mother would have thought I was crazy wanting to measure flour! But, look mom, it works!

~Cindy

sandra Alicante

My mother used a normal mug for measuring, even though she had scales, she couldn't bother to use them.

She was convinced that a cup was 8 oz. No matter what was in it. I tried, when I was learning such things in Maths at school, to tell here otherwise but she would not listen.

Her repertoire was small. Fruit cake, sponge cake, a crumble or fruit pie. The first two seldom came out barely more than edible and she always complained that no one wanted to eat them the day after baking. Oddly, she would never eat her own baked goods, claiming not to have a sweet tooth. However, if a shop bought cake was brought into the house, she would be the first to dive into it!

sandrascookbook.com

HardwareLust

One thing I've found, is that I just set a timer at the very beginning to correspond with the start of the last rise (or the end of the last punch down), and then when that timer goes off, I just lift the dough ball carefully and remove both of the paddles.

Once the last punch-down is complete, there's no further reason for the paddles to be in there. I also spritz the posts with a bit of non-stick spray after I remove the paddles. The loaf will slide right out when it's done, and the holes it leaves behind are much smaller.

Kemling again

I just got a new ZO, newest model and have made my first bread. It was not an unqualified success. I had an old Breadman before which was totally reliable. Maybe I have get used to this one. I'm afraid to add nuts or raisins to the basic recipe. Will the bread still rise?

sandra Alicante

It would help to know more.
Model of machine?
What was wrong with the bread?
Did you use your usual recipe or one supplied with the machine? ( It would be useful to see the recipe)
Did you weigh ingredients?
What programme did you use?
Was the liquid cold when you put it in? (some machines warm it, some don't)
Did the yeast have chance to contact directly with the salt? (yeast does not like that)

As you can see, many variables! Let us know more and the chances are someone can help.

sandrascookbook.com

Kemling again

I did use a KAF RECIPE AND i DID WEIGH MY INGREDIENTS, but I might have not programmed it right. I can't remember what I made. Friends seemed to like it. I have since made some raisinbread and it turne out fine. But I really do have problem programming the Zo. I even use a flashlight to see better with my overhead light on also. It makes me panicky. Thanks for your interest

mrscindy
  • Reply by mrscindy on January 30, 2012 at 10:59 am
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Kemling? Is that you? From the Old BC? If so, it's good to see you back, again! It isn't easy maneuvering around here, but you'll get used to it if you just stick with it. Glad to see you back baking with us.

~Cindy